File: "10264-September


Interviewer = I  

Michelle = M 

Fillippo = F 

Nathan = N 

(Doug?) = D 

Christopher = C

Paula = P

I: I'm not going to really be asking you really confidential questions, more personal things; what you think, what you believe, what your experience is. I know we’re talking about business banking, but I’m not going to be asking you how much money you make and that kind of thing. Everybody good with that? So I really want to get to know a little bit about you, just for myself and for the folks in the back. I'm going to go around the room, and if you can just say your first name and tell me what you do; what your business is and all you’ve been doing.

M: My name is Michelle; I'm a dentist, and I've been practicing for about 23 years. I own my own business.

I: How long have you had your own business for?

M: Same amount of time.

I: So right out of school?

M: Pretty much, right out of school.

I: Cool stuff. And you are, sir?

F: Filippo. I’m a dentist as well.

I: Filippo; I’ll have to split you two up afterwards. And how long have you been doing that for?

F: 26 years.

M: It’s your own business since that time?

F: Yeah.

I: And you are, sir?

N: I’m Nathan; I’m a family physician. I came to Canada from the States in 2003; so 15 years here and 15 years in the States.

I: And are you on your own?

N: In Canada, on my own. In Canada I run my own practice.

I: And you're alone, or do you have partners?

N: I have four employees.

I: (INAUDIBLE 1:48) How about you guys, do you have partners?

P: I have a partner.

I: Just one?

M: One.

I: Yourself too, Filippo?

F: Yeah.

I: Okay. You are, sir?

D: (INAUDIBLE 1:55); I’m a physician - also trying to grow a real estate company - and I’ve been practicing for 12 years.

I: And are you on your own like Nathan, or do you have a partner in the practice?

D: I work within a division, but I’m independent.

I: Alright; sir?

C: Chris; I’m a lawyer. I have two lawyers working for me, and (INAUDIBLE 2:23)time.

I: How long have you been doing that for?

C: 20 years as a lawyer; more than 15 years I’ve been running my own business.

I: And Paula?

P: I'm a lawyer too; I’m just laughing because the two dentists are sat together, two lawyers sat together. I’ve had my own practice for like, 27 years. I’ve worked sort of with other people, but kind of always was in control of my own initiative.

I: So you're independent, then; no partner?

P: Yeah.

I: Okay, good stuff. Tell me a little bit about your experience was with business banking; what's working, what's missing. Paula, what’s-

P: I can tell you what's missing; it’s just happened on Friday. What I was laughing at is, I was at the branch and I went “This is perfect timing”. So for CIBC now, they're doing those cashless branches or whatever; my branch just switched over, so this is like our initiation; - or indoctrination, as I like to think of it - and they're completely not set up for lawyers, so it was a disaster.

I: In what way was it-

P: Basically we have trust accounts, and our trust accounts are mixed trusts accounts - so that's a little issue about independent (INAUDIBLE 3:30 - officiator), but the most important part is you can't take fees out of them, and the interest that's on the account has to go to the Law Foundation. So they have no mechanism now to have an account that doesn’t have (INAUDIBLE 3:40“VISA on it?”). I was clearly the second or the third customer that day that it had the problem with, but the person who was supposed to be training me had no knowledge; and so he kept feeding my card into this commercial ATM machine, because it's different than the other ones. It didn't work; he didn't understand why; I had to go to a manager; it was very (INAUDIBLE 4:00 - unprepared), let’s put it that way.

I: And this is because it's a recent change to your branch.

P: To the branch, it's a recent change; but one would have thought if the whole point was to have people come in to introduce a new product - and it is a commercial-type branch - They might have thought about that.

I: What’s worked for you in the past?

P: Customer service.

I: What do you mean by that?

P: People who you know at the branch, which is becoming increasingly difficult. What we then got, before this, was people reaching out to us on the phone - so they were going to have a phone contact person - and they're lovely on the phone or whatever, but they don't really have anything to do with the branch. Then the Law Society, I think, is behind the times as far as electronic deposits and all that kind of stuff; so we still have checks a lot of times we have to generate, and it's just… So anyway, we're not really user-friendly, to be a cashless branch. But we also have these little anomalies which the supervisor at this branch acknowledged; but I would have thought there's enough lawyers out there, they would have thought about that when they were doing whatever algorithm, grandfathering… Anyway; so it’s just hilarious, because I came back and my assistant had to come in - she went through the same process. Anyway, we’re both glad (INAUDIBLE 5:13) coming into today.

M: Why’d they make two (INAUDIBLE 5:16)?

P: I don’t know.

I: Chris?

C: I had those issues with my trust account when I first opened them up at the CIBC - they were taking the (INAUDIBLE 5:27 “deposit fees out/VISA after….?”) - and I haven't had a problem, and I don't have much (INAUDIBLE 5:32) activity luckily, but those problems got resolved.

I: What’s working for you then?

C: Well, now that I’ve changed my branch just to be closer to where I am, that was nice, I suppose; but it took probably 10 hours to successfully transfer my accounts from one branch to another. They want to phone me, then I have to phone the person, then they do this; then I have zero balance, and they're taking fees out, I have to take money out…. Just a simple thing, to move one CIBC branch to another; but I just literally accomplished that today.

I: I’ll try again; anything working for you?

C: Oh, working?

I: What works for you, day-to-day basis or long-term?

C: I got my account in about 1984, when they first…I really enjoyed using a bank machine and not having to go to the bank. I get the money when I need it; I go all over the world and take out the money, and they attach my VISA cards to it, and it's organised, and they take out more money than I want. I don’t, hopefully, understand, but you asked me how it works; I mean, I get my money and I can have control, and generally I can get someone on the phone, and most times I don't have to waste hours. That works.

D: Working or not?

I: What’s working, yeah.

D: It’s working well for me now, at least on the medical-professional-corporation side; the online tax filing, I think is well done. Doesn’t have glitches, I can set it up a year in advance and it’s easy to look at future(INAUDIBLE 7:10) payments and tax payments. That's working well; I don't generally rely on loans, so I don't really have to deal with much…As a separate issue on the real estate side… Actually, one other thing that isn't working well is the corporate accounts; for some reason log-ons are connected to the corporate VISA card and not the client card. I find that unusual, or weird; why my accounts log-on is through the visa or credit card, and not the client card. On the small real estate side, there I’ve had a lot of difficulty with customer service, and poor service with getting mortgages and homeowners paperwork, when they already have all the money and documentation to reapply for another mortgage.

I: Do you have two separate accounts with (INAUDIBLE 8:05)?

D: Yes.

I: Do you have a personal account with them as well?

D: Yes- actually no, I do not. I have two corporate entities with CIBC, but no personal.

I: Nathan, your experiences?

N: Well, actually I agree with my colleague that yes, filing taxes is very easy and very reliable; every month you can actually do it at your leisure and way ahead of time. What I didn't like is, at some point I accumulated quite a significant amount of money in a CIBC account, and it was just sitting there for, I would say, more than three years - I was too busy with other things - and nobody called me. No offers to come over to these (INAUDIBLE 8:47) can be done, nothing like that, so it was one- not a good issue. So the good issue is filing taxes; not a good issue is my preparations attached to one range. The (INAUDIBLE 9:00 “algorithms?) cannot do anything with that particular account - it's kind of like untouchable - and to move my business account from one location to another, it’s a headache; so I don’t know why.

I: Filippo?

F: I’ve had the account since I was like eleven; I was delivering papers and I opened up my account with CIBC. My head branch is still the one near my house, and where I work in the mall, there is a CIBC there. So I do my banking within the mall, so I always have good experiences; like the one that's been in my neighbourhood, I always talk to the same people, they know who I am, everything’s good for me.

I: Everything works.

F: In the mall where I work, inside there is the CIBC branch. I do all my stuff there or on my way home; in my house I can take care of it.

I: Excellent. Michelle?

M: So what's working for me is definitely the customer service at my local branches, but that's not my main bank, apparently; and there's no higher management. I have no manager that manages our account in any way; that being said, there's no debts so there's no higher up customer-service, but day-to-day banking at my branch is lovely. The biggest problem I have with CIBC - and it's only on CIBC, not other banks I have for other reasons - is they have a very low limit on e-Transfer payments. So they’re $3,000; that doesn't cover my rent; so it's two separate days to do rent, it has to be 24 hours. I think that’s a nuisance, and other banking institutions have higher limits.

I: When you're saying that there's no senior person beyond the…. What are you looking for? What are some of the things?

M: Well, when we just setting up our online banking, apparently we didn't have the right to an ATM card to do that; but there was no one to speak to help us do that. So we’d have to go back to the office, call; figure out what we have to do, go into the branch. The person who’s supposed to be the higher-up person had zero people skills; he had all the degrees and went to all the right schools and everything, but didn’t shake my hand and introduce himself. The tellers, and everyone who can do the grunt work with everyone that come in are lovely; but the higher-ups just don't seem to… And he couldn't get it going either.

I: Thanks for that. I’m going to switch gears a little bit and then we're going to come back to business banking. I want to talk in general about brands; I want to take the level of conversation for the rest of the evening a little bit higher. It's not so much I want to hear about all those things that… those niggles that knaw at you, everybody has those; I want to take the level of discussion to a brand level. I’m going to have a little exercise with you, and it’s going to be outside of business - well, it could be business banking as well. Usually what we do, we get you to do it before you come in; frankly, we didn't have… just timing and so forth, it didn't work out; just a really quick exercise to get you into that mindset. What I want to do is, I’m going to hand you an empty template here; and I'll give you an example with Apple, in terms of what Apple is about. This is what we call positioning; in marketing we call it the positioning. Now you can see there's different - if you take one and pass it along, so you know what the categories are - basically it outlines who the target is, what makes the brand unique or what makes it individual or special. What does the brand stand for; what is the brand's personality? It sounds like a weird thing,to say a brand has a personality, but brands do if you dig deep into it. If it were a person, what kind of person would he or she be? What aspect of the brand would make you choose this over another, and what's the essence; if you take what the brand is all about, how would you distill it? I’ll give an example in terms of Nike, the target. This isn't done professionally; this is an exercise that we did with in another group, and they filled in the categories accordingly. In terms of the target, the target is absolutely anyone old enough to work the product; there’s no one specific age. This person thinks Nike’s for pretty much everybody, anybody that would be able to work the product. What makes it original or unique- it's not Nike, sorry, it’s Apple. When it first launched the iPhone, there was nothing like it on the market; they have all the products that match, which I personally love, and each one links in with the others. What does the brand stand for? It's the most successful products to date; leaders in breakthrough products. What's the personality? Lively, bubbly, respectable, trendy. If you think about Apple, and you think about the ads they do, and the vibe you get from them, it kind of rings true, right? And again, this is from a person just like yourself; not a professional marketer that came up with this. What aspect of the brand would make you choose Apple over the other one? “Its reliability would make me choose over any other in the same category”; so reliability for this person was the main thing. And what is the essence of the brand? Basically summarising in a really short sentence; and this person wrote “sleek, user-friendly products you trust and rely on.” When I read this, to me it rings true. I would like you to pick a brand, any brand that appeals to you; it could be something that's personal - it doesn't have to be business related - and want you to try to fill out that template, in terms of target, what the brand stands for.

N: Any brand?

I: Any brand you think is a great brand. Please don't do Apple - that would be really easy - but you can pick any brand and fill it in, okay? I need to take a look at this as a kind of example. It’s a brand that you love, Paula?

P: I know, since I have my Apple phone, watch, and iPad. Im trying to think of something.

I: Think of a food brand, or…

P: Perfect, I’ll do that.


PREPARATION 16:40 - 19:20


I: Are you having a bit of trouble with a couple of the…

M: They kind of overlap. My answers overlap. The same…different adjectives for the same thing.

I: OK.

M: I'm just thinking about what I bought most recently..

I: Try and focus on this one here, the essence; because a couple of ones in the middle, other folks were saying…

M: What does hobby and branding stand for, like, it’s the same.

I: Personality is a little bit different. Think about it, what brand did you choose?

M: Warby Parker.

I: If that brand was a person, what kind of person would he or she be? Is it a caring brand, a confident brand? This person said about Apple that it was bubbly and lively; so it's like you would describe that as a person, like your best friend.

M: Right, so they’re trendy and cool.

I: But do they stand for trendy and cool, or something else?

M: This is my opinion what they stand for; I don't know what their business philosophy is, I'm not sure. So that's what I'm thinking in my head.

I: What do you think of yourself; you're doing it personally, not what they think they are. Chris, I think you’re the first one to finish, so I'm going to pick on you first.

C: I didn't write it down; you didn't ask us to do that. Saddlebag.

I: Tell me a little about that.

C: They make high-end leather products out of Texas, and if you want to buy something that's thicker than a bag - that's my briefcase - you see it looks like it's made on a ranch. They’re very folksy.

I: So who do you think the target is for this?

C: People with money who have rustic tastes.

I: What makes it so unique?

C: High-quality durability; it stands for high standards, uncompromising standards. Personality, homey, earthy; down-to-earth. Choose over another; no better quality available, and essence; quality that will outlive me. It's actually slogan; “Your grandchildren will fight over it when you're dead.”

I: So there's a durability; that's what you mean, endurance or durability.

C: Yeah, it's pretty indestructible; so it's that aspect of quality they focus on, the image of the cowboy you see strapped to a horse.

I: Why does that appeal to you?

C: Because so much stuff is machine-made and disposable; this is quite the opposite.

F: I wrote down Toyota; most of my friends drive more expensive cars, but I don’t like spending money on cars. To me, it’s not worth my wallet;(INAUDIBLE 23:05) goes “Oh, why don’t you buy a BMW if you’re a dentist?” I know I can go out and get one, but I'm going to give my money to charity. So Toyota, it's a very reliable car, very luxurious; a reliable, comfortable ride.

I: Tell me what you wrote down; who do you think the target is?

F: Anyone; they're always promoting it that way. You always say I want it to last, how old; (INAUDIBLE 23:30)

I: What makes a brand different from other brands?

F: For me it's like a Lexus without the lipstick; it's nice inside, but it's just the same. I did all my research.

I: So if Toyota was a person, how would you describe him or her?

F: Craftsmanship or something; reliable. The lipstick fools people; you don't need the lipstick, you're paying for this lipstick that you don't need.

I: What did you put as the essence? Just skip right to the essence.

F: Good-quality car at a reasonable price.

I: You said it really nice, with the Lexus without the lipstick. Michelle?

M: I chose Warby Parker, the glasses company. Target is really youth and young adults who need new glasses; I think they're unique, original, because their designs are really sleek and the prices are really reasonable. They’ll deliver your prescription glasses right to your door. I think they stand for really good-looking glasses, to mass-market everywhere; their personality is really trendy and cool, and why would I choose them? Their stores are really inviting; the staff is friendly and personable, and the styles kind of make you want to have many pairs of them. To me that was the essence.

D: I went with two different ones, being a little bit provocative. This one is just religion - I don't know if that's a brand, I didn't want to choose one religion over the other for correctnes;, I don't know if you want to hear that - or I'll go with the TD Bank.

I: Let's do the religion one, because we’ll talking about banking.

D: Who's the target; humans. What makes the brand unique or original; belief in a greater power. What does the brand stand for; to have purpose in life. What is the brand's personality; most of them are disciplined, ritualistic, revolve around calendar lifecycle rituals. What aspect of the brand would make you choose this over another in the same category; either you're born into it or you find that one has a more impactful narrative than the other. And what is the essence of this brand; spiritual maintenance or rejuvenation.

I: That's brilliant; no-one’s ever done religion before, that's a good one. I'm going to look at the TD one after. Paula?

P: So we went from religion to Campbell’s Soul. Who's the target; I just said basically anybody or everyday families. Then the packaging is really, I think, what makes it unique; I think they've had the same red and white label for a very long time, I would assume that that's a strategy. Andy Warhol liked the label too, right? I just put timeless, old-school, recognisable. What does it stand for; I think most people would think it's good quality nutrition. What is its personality; I would say reliability, quality. Again, this is where I'm like everyone else, sort of redundancies. What aspect of the brand would think you choose this over another? I part of it’s the longevity, and there's a sense of if you buy the soup, I don't know, the ingredients are better quality or whatever. What's the essence of the brand, what does it make you think of; Mr Roger's Neighbourhood. Makes you feel good if you're sick everybody wants chicken noodle soup.

I: Nathan, what brand did you pick?

N: I think the brand is called (INAUDIBLE 27:50); I put down that anyone can use it.

I: Who's the target?

N: Anyone; any age, any health status, any condition. You want to walk every day in the morning, (INAUDIBLE 28:05), work on your muscles. Or you have problems walking and it keeps you walking.

I: If there was a bullseye, what would be the bullseye? You know the target, you’re shooting darts; what would be the bullseye?

N: Anybody aged 30 and above. What makes it unique; it’s the only brand which gives you warranties on the product, which keeps working on different (INAUDIBLE 28:40) attachments with different categories of customers; which have good customer support - you can write them an email, they’re going to respond - what does it stand for? It stands for “Be active, be healthy, be strong”; basically their motto. What is the brand personality; I would say it’s a reliable, strong, silent guy who gives you the shoulder when you need. What aspects of the brand would make you choose; the trust, the reliability, the warranties behind it. The essence; the essence is the durable, strong, reliable versatility and trust.

I: Excellent; you guys did a brilliant job. You can see how this kind of lifts up the discussion to the brand level, versus the little kind of granular things that you deal with. If you were doing this for Campbell Soup, you’d be talking about the number of pieces in the chicken noodle soup; so that's what I want to do for the rest of the evening. Just hang on to that stuff for now; we're going to move back to business banking, the whole lens now is about business banking. I'm going to show you some positionings; those are kind of rough little buckets and so forth. These ones are going to be a little bit different, it's written in longhand. One thing about this again, it's not advertising; it's really how the brand wants to see itself in the marketplace. It’s kind of a shorthand of what the brand stands for, kind of the essence in it. You can read a little bit about the personality by the way it's written and so forth, but essentially from this we can get to that, or that you can get to this. I’m going to get you to do it individually, and I’ve got two of them; one’s called the Power of our Network, another’s called As Unique as You Are. Notice in front of you, you'll have a blue and a red highlighter; as you’re reading along I want you to do a hot and cold exercise. As you’re reading and see those kind of words or sentences that are really capturing you/feeling really good about, highlight it with the red/hot colour; but if there are things that either you don't understand or not really resonating with you, highlight it with the blue. Don't treat this as advertising in a sense; you’re never going to see anything like this like in an ad, it’s something that we do really typically for these kinds of exercise. So just to give it in a sense in terms of CIBC business banking; what it wants to be. It might not be today, it's something that might want to be in the next three to five years; so this position is a future, forward-looking kind of exercise.


PREPARATION (32:35) - (35:55)


F: I’m not sure about the others, but I have the impression that I already read it somewhere.

I: Okay, just keep it to yourself and we'll have a discussion, okay? We'll talk about it. For me, it’s more important to see what are the things that are working for you, and things that are not working for you. I've been doing this for 25 years. Sometimes people read something and they believe ‘I've heard that somewhere’, but sometimes it's because it seems familiar to us - because it actually resonates with you or it doesn't resonate with you -so outline those areas that are working for you, and not working so much.


PREPARATION  (36:45) - (37:25)


P: I feel like I’m editing my kid’s paper. I want to start over.

I: You're going to get a chance; so don't put so much on how it's written.

P: It’s hard not to.

I: Did you want to be a teacher at some point? No?

P: I’m used to editing.

I: You're going to have a chance to do it - that’s why I put it up there - but I want to focus on the ideas first, and then we can we can work on actually improving it; whatever areas can be improved or clarified on. Are there areas that are resonating with you and not resonating with you, okay?


PREPARATION (38:10) - (38:25)


I: Doug, I want to start with you; we’ll starting with the power of our network and what was working for you there. Did everybody gave it a score as well, from one to ten? ?, what score did you give it.

D: I gave it a five; ambivalence. I guess the other thing is, I feel slightly biased towards the service that I've received from CIBC; is that okay?

I: That's fine; so it's bringing you negatively into it?

D: Yeah; the need to be part of something bigger, that was warm for me.

I: Think of it also, is there anything in there that is interesting to you and not based on prior experience? You can do both actually, so let me know what that stuff as well.

D: The aspirational part; the need to be part of something bigger. Yeah, that’d be great, but when they come back to me specifically and saying there on my side, and my business success - plugging into contacts, advice, insight, interest - it just resonances as empty.

I: Are any of those things something that are desirable to you, or something that you would like to see from CIBC?

D: Sure, if the contacts that I was plugged into in the past turned out favourably; yes, I would love to be plugged into contacts that are trying for me. That was not the experience - or advice, insights that brought the business to the next level - that was not the experience, and I'm not trying to be negative. Yes, these things are great; I would resonate with more, I would want to do it, if the action met the language.

I: So there are desirable things that you see, there are aspirational things that you see there.

D: The aspirational pitch? I want my business to be bigger.

I: What did you put in blue?

D: ”Take your business success to the next level, plugging you into contacts, advice, insights and finances; because that will bring power and resources to your ambition.” So I'm trying… I like that, but past experience is completely contradictory-

I: So you do like that, okay.

D: So I'm trying my best to say yes, I like it; so what's red and blue make, purple? What colour does it make?

I: Yeah. I failed art class. Paula, what school did you give it?

P: A one. I got through the first two lines and thought it was so cheesy I couldn’t stand it. (INAUDIBLE 41:15) Sorry to be so equivocal”), but-

I: No, it's okay, I understand the… Are there ideas there? Are there elements in there that are interesting to you?

P: I would suggest - if this was supposed to go to an entrepreneurial spirit and sort of recognise people can take a risk, this to me was incredibly patronising.

I: Sorry, the blue part there?

P: Well, I just… I mean, I could have circled all of it, but honestly I would have read this on Tinder and said “Yuck, thank you; not interested.”

I: All right. We're going to get a chance to improve on it, so let me move on.

P: This also did not speak to me. I didn’t-

I: So you put a blue through the whole thing. Was there any elements that were working for you?

M: I think Paula’s already described it right; without realising, I just found it patronising too.

I: In what way? Help me understand that.

M: I mean, it just seems like all words, no action; I don't like how it was written or what it was saying, or the word content at all.

I: Christopher, it looks like you have a five; you didn't mark anything. Tell me your thoughts.

C: I mean, I don't get upset, I don't find it… I think it's advertising and I'm not going to find advertising patronising, but-

I: It's not traditional; it’s not advertising, right?

C: Right, it's a statement of value, but it's zero substance. For me, I don't see any relationship between my banking and my business and its success, so why is this interesting to me or relevant in any way? It has no substance; I need something that's says “Okay” - something that means something - like “I will save you money, and this is how; this is something you might be doing wrong that I might be able to fix you with”, but it’s so vague. And it’s an intentional… intentionally, they, right away, and I just have no interest in them.

I: You're a lawyer, right? I can understand. Filippo, did you underline anything in blue or red?

F: No. They try to build me up, make me think I'm so brave, this and that-

I: I want to push back a little bit of that, because I know sometimes… Is it true, the stuff that you're reading, did you want to follow your own path? Are you getting into some kind of - nevermind the way it's written - but like in terms of the intent, or what they're trying to get right.

F: I think they're trying to build me up; “I’m so special”.

P: I don’t think it's brave, it was just a choice; anyone can do really it.

I: So you don't believe that you're special, that you did something on your own? Because most people don't do that. I'm like you guys, I'm an independent… I choose do it for certain reasons; for example, I didn't want to be like everybody else and work for the man.

P: I don't think being a dentist, lawyer or physician is that unique; that brave or special, sorry. I just think - especially the age bracket that we all came from, or…

D: The longest paragraph is, I think, an attempt to identify; and clearly the longest paragraph doesn't identify with-

I: You guys aren’t identifying; it doesn’t seem that way. I’m just trying to understand why, okay?

F: I understand that, but I started reading this; there's two other guys from my high school class that are dentists - we still hang out - and from undergrad, there's like 5 of us that work in together. So I don't think that I did anything so breathe or unique, or anything. If you work hard, you can do it; and there’s guys that became physicians and lawyers from my class. This one’s just trying build you up.

I: Nathan, your thoughts?

N: Basically, I found it cliche-

I: No, on the first one-

N: Actually, it got my attention a little bit - kind of a little bit, it was talking about my experiences - that I had to overcome lots of stuff to get to the point I am right now, so it was a little bit pleasant.

I: There's some truth in your experience and your life that tapped into it?

N: Yes, absolutely; it got my attention, and it could have (INAUDIBLE 45:55) “led me somewhere else from that…”

I: Okay; well, you have quite a bit of red stuff.

N: Well again, if it was talking about plugging into the contacts, advice; it tell me that they might give me advice, they might help me to do something deeper than I have right now, so that’s good.

I: Let's switch to the second one; anybody identify with this one more, or-

F: (INAUDIBLE 46:30) the fact it’s customised to your needs.

I: So what score did you give this one?

F: I give a six; it’s not great, but it’s OK. I mean, CIBC; ever since I was a kid, I've always done business there.

I: You did say that, yeah.

F: You know, the tellers know me; I’d walk in and they’d always take care of me. That's why I've always…. other banks say “Oh, we can give you this or that.” Even besides the fact that it's in the mall, it makes it easy; I've always been loyal to CIBC, they’ve always taken care of me. My first mortgage and all, the bank calls somebody for you; the rate that guy gave me, I shopped around everywhere. The rate he gave me right off the bat was already better than anybody else; it’s the loyalty, and this is when I was a lot younger.

I: What did you highlight?

F: Just the part that say, you know, that's why your customers choose you - so you might know and respond to every need they have - so why you should expected uniqueness? You can't treat everybody the same.

I: Paula?

P: I did similar; I just did-

I: You gave it a six as well?

P: Yeah, and then the part that…buy TD, if you're (INAUDIBLE 47:45) uniqueness; you make your business what it is, that's why your customers choose you. I think that has more of a recognising an entrepreneurial spirit in a more genuine way.

I: It's in a more genuine way of recognising that. Does it speak to you, in terms of is- is it truth to you?

P: That's what’s people tell me; and I think with lawyers and probably dentists too, it's mostly - I don't know what everybody else (INAUDIBLE 48:00) - but mostly word of mouth. When you've been doing this long enough, I don't really need to advertise because people refer, and that's back to reliability, quality - they know you're going to do their work - and I think it indirectly, that’s a customer service, which is what we seem to all be (INAUDIBLE 48:15), because we provide it in our day-to-day lives.

I: Chris, you have a five for that one too; you didn't seem to underline anything. If you’re compare and contrasting, is there-

C: This is definitely more positive, I suppose, because uniqueness sells; the irony of giving a generic way of (INAUDIBLE 48:35)…But yeah, everyone wants to feel special, so (INAUDIBLE 48:40) special needs, that's what you work for; making someone out that there. So that’s more positive, I think, than the other networks.

I: Any other elements in there?

N: I like the picture. Seriously, if I was going to pick out a picture.

I: What about yourself?

D: For physicians, it’s slightly different - I think our supply-side controls are tighter - and so my patients don't really choose me, they have no choice.

F: You have to wait an hour, you wait an hour.

D: Yeah, sorry to say. They choose to come back; they don’t have to come back, but…

N: What kind of physician are you?

D: I do internal medicine.

I: So people are referred to you?

D: Well, through the emergency room; or I do some family physicians in our primary care unit. So why should you expect the same from your bank? Again, we want to be your bank in capped letters; didn’t resonate what me. And it matches exactly what you need - “Make sure our service always matches exactly what you need”, it's a degree of precision that is lofty.

I: Not aspirational, but lofty?

D: Lofty; “Matches exactly what you need?” I don’t know if anything in life matches exactly what I need.

I: Nathan?

N: This pitch, I didn’t like at all.

I: Because?

N: Because again, when I looked at it I had the impression that I read it - I read it somewhere - I know it all already.

I: is there anything that was interesting to you? For me, it’s more important to understand.

N: Well, the last paragraph, kind of; “It's a unique solution for unique business”, so I felt that maybe my business is unique.

I: Do you feel that way?

N: I feel my business is unique. Do they? I don’t know.

I: Michelle, I didn’t hear from you on this one, did I?

M: I like the beginning; this one spoke to me a little bit more, because I think my business is unique. I think my office offers a experience for my patients, so that opening definitely spoke to me. But for me, my experience with banking is (INAUDIBLE 51:10).

I: Good stuff. I’m going to break you up into teams; so this is your chance to actually make these things sing a little bit better. It doesn't seem like these are resonating very strongly with you guys; we had a previous group that some of these were working a little bit better. So I'm going to give you guys they chance to - it's okay, no, it's fine,

N: What am I supposed to be again? This is a-

P: It’s a purpose.

N: What is it that wer’e trying to improve?

I: What you're trying to improve is, what this thing has to do is actually ring true to you in terms of your business, and the challenges you have and the experience that you have in your business. Also, the purpose for CIBC is to build a brand - to build a position so that they can differentiate from other banks, basically that's what this does - that would appeal to you. There’s something like “Okay, this is what this is what they're striving to be and be about”, and it should match up to what your experiences are in your business.

F: Shouldn’t it be from business? The perspective, numbers speaking better than words. From the business perspective, numbers - banking - should be talking to us through the numbers, not words. “As a business, we’re offering you that much, that long, for so long”. (INAUDIBLE 52:45), you know what it is?

I: You have to indulge me a little bit, because they do research on products - offering you this rate for this amount of time, or offering you certain… That's a different kind of exercise. This is again, a more higher-order; it's a marketing kind of thing. So a lot of this stuff that - again, I've been doing this for 25 years. I’ve done it for Nike, I’ve done it for Campbells, I've done it for pickles-

P: So this is more philosophical, right?

I: Yeah, and that's what it is; it's more to get at this… again, I’ll use the word ‘positioning’. What do we really stand for? With the banks they can all give you a certain offer, so how do we speak and project ourselves to you guys, to business banking customers? That's what this is for. I know sometimes you want some - and I'll show you some kind of; what they would call activations, kind of the things that go with it - so that might help you a little bit more. What I might do is, I'm going to change things around a little bit and actually put those up there, to say “Okay these are the kinds of things that they're going to be doing.” When you read something like that, it makes it believable. So I'll put that up there.

P: I think we’re lacking some context.

I: Yeah, it seems that you guys want things a little bit more concrete, and that would help. It's not going to give you a rate/product; it's going to be more like things that they-

N: Otherwise, we’re swimming in the ocean with no-

I: I get you, 100%, but you have to indulge me, Nathan. That’s what the exercise is; that's what we're going to be doing for the rest of the day. Let me break you into teams first; so we're going to we're going to split up the dentists and the lawyers….




I: Let's start with you guys over here; what did you put as an essence here?

P: So we started off with - is that our mission statement? I don’t know - “Thank you for the privilege of allowing us to help you,” and then we sort of went with words of respect, appreciation and achievements. “Customised health expansion”; so for two of us, we just couldn't stand this paragraph, it was such a non-starter, so gone.

I: How does that fit in with the what you wrote there?

P: We basically thought this didn't fit in at all; it took away from the message, so we just pretended it didn’t exist (INAUDIBLE 1:23:00). So we just skipped over that because we thought this was better, and that it's a real business achieving… Real business success stories, achieved through creating connections; and hence the whole point about building a network. So then that's why we did it; and then what we wanted to do was to change the focus, and I think it's the fact that all of us - except for the physicians in the room - we do have to compete for business, because people can literally go next door down the street or whatever. So reflecting that in the bank business - because seriously, there’s at least five major banks, right? - so what we wanted to do was to change the tone, and to have the bank thanking us for the privilege of allowing us to help you grow your business. So focusing on that, saying “Thank you for being our customer”, which i think is a better message than this

F: Because they have a choice where you can go.

P: Giving some recognition that we’re a customer and thank you for being with us.

I: In terms of the growing of business, I think you worked the target into that?

P: Yes, so we went with an established business rather than going to the next level. A lot of these other… What we were saying is, we thought that the target was for an established business growing to the next level - which was why they were talking about connections and building and that type of thing - and actually it's set up here to move up to the next level, so that's what we took away from it. With these cards, I'm not sure what you wanted to do with them, but what we thought would be helpful was actually… We all thought that having an exchange of information was helpful. I like that they actually name people specifically; like, “Here's our tax expert, here's our economist”, and this one was “Yes, if you want to grow we have those outside resources to help you.”

I: Which one is that, sorry? Because the folks in the back can’t see.

P: This says (INAUDIBLE 1:24:54) “Expert grid we provide to you with essential reading.”

I: How does that connect to that area?

P: That there's actually people… So I guess what we were thinking is, most of us who have our skill set, we’ve got a certain skill set that will allow us to be hopefully good at what we do. We have a uniqueness; our customers or clients pick us because of that. If you want to grow, then you may want expertise outside your own area; this, what appealed to me was it actually named people. I like that, but it’s not…You can Google them if you want. Then this was just talking about the exchange thing.

I: That one’s the skills exchange?

P: ”We go beyond banking to help you connect with people who can help your business grow and prosper.” To me that's too vague; I don't know what that means. This is telling me there's an economist, and there’s a taxation person; and then going on, “Amongst our clients we identify people with specialist skills who are prepared to be a mentor in exchange for mentoring back.” So then that linked in with this, which is the peer-to-peer - which (INAUDIBLE 1:25:50) “NAME ?” really likes, because he does a bit of that anyway - is sharing and a generation of ideas. I think back to having established businesses that want to grow; that was kind of linkage, but I don’t really know how that fits with that, other than it demonstrates the-

I: How do those things benefit to the target; if it's an establishment business that wants to go to that next level?

P: Well, I think the peer-to…Well, I’m talking from-

F: You can have ideas. Somebody might say “You know what, I (INAUDIBLE 1:26:25). There's the training, what to do yeah; this is what they taught me. They taught me how cherry-pick what to do; like low risk, high-benefit, not wasting time on what not to do. That’ll work for me; that might make you go to the next level.

I: And you got that from some peers of yours?

F: Yeah, I talk to dentists all over town. I have ones from courses-

I: So that’s a more formalised ways of doing-

F: What it is is, I don't run a lot courses as a volunteer; so it gets me out of the office on Friday's, but I enjoy it. I enjoy talking to people, how to learn; it's very beneficial.

P: But that could be a peer-to-peer-

F: (INAUDIBLE 1:27:00), I'm just saying, if a bank has functions with they’ll bring in financial guy, inviting him for free and a meal while you talk to other people. I don’t know if they do that or not.

I: Let’s move onto you guys. What was your essence; what did you write in terms of an essence?

M: The essence was “Commercial banking that can adapt to your uniqueness”; so we were looking originally at the words (INAUDIBLE 1:27:35), Flexibility, Adaptability, that’s sort of what came out of that. And our target was really the person who owns a business, Who-

I: So this would be some of the features or attributes of the bank, in terms of what you're reading from.

M: The target was the person who owns the business, or who has the problem - the person who makes the decisions - so we're looking at all of us, the sole proprietorship.

I: So business owner, (INAUDIBLE 1:28:00) “especially/a special age” that thinks they won't get the service they require unless they get special attention. That's kind of a specific target that you’er talking about, versus just a business owner. What else did you write over here?

M: Took out “Get to know and respond to unique requirements” and put “needs”, and then wrote “Wouldn't it be nice if your bank supported you when you need them?”

I: Instead of “Why shouldn’t you expect the same from your bank?”

M: Right; and then I just put in quotations “Nice” - I don't really think that's a good word, but I (INAUDIBLE 1:28:40) -and then I really like what ? said about “Not just to be a bank, we want to be a better bank.”

I: Why not “Your bank?”

M: I think they are our bank. They want to be our bank; they are our bank.

D: ”Your bank”: it’s so sales-ly, instead of “I want to be your bank”. In capital letters.

I: So you're saying “We want to be a better bank.”

D: Okay, I appreciate that effort to improve.

M: And I think I goes with what they wrote; I really like your message about that “the bank is thanking us for a change.

I: So if I was to say that's fine and dandy; CIBC Want to be a better bank, what's in it for you?

D: I also see that if they want to be a better bank, it's like an admission; “maybe we're not so good now.”

P: I like that; I like the modesty.

N: You’re so Canadian.

I: So a couple of these, you circled “Your plan” and the “3-in-1 (INAUDIBLE 1:30:05) “’”. Why did you guys pick this one and “Your plan?

P: I think that “Your Plan” again talk of uniqueness, it just sort of flowed with everything else-

I: So it works well with the uniqueness essence.

P: Then the other one talked out about how “We’re giving you three people; someone who (INAUDIBLE 1:30:20)… a reflection on that; three specific people who are going to always be there for you. It seemed more (INAUDIBLE 1:30:30).

I: And how does that fit into this? Christopher.

D: Much less likely that all three people are not going to understand your needs? One of them might understand you.

I: Any other ones work for you because…?

M: The one with the (INAUDIBLE 1:30:50) “piggy” was very vague; the software one I didn’t understand.

I: That’s “The Whole You?”

C: It’s personal finance, so it may seem personal-

I: What do you guys think about that? Do you want to keep those separate?

D: I would love that; for my kids, I would love them together, but they can’t match other products that are better on the personal side.

C: Chris, what about you? Personal, do you keep those separate? Would you like there to be one point of contact that could be able to handle your personal as well?

C: Nah, separate.

I: Because…two different lines?

C: Yeah. Business is not always pleasurable, and that's okay.

I: Michelle, what about you?

M: I've done both over the years; I think I prefer it separate also.

I: Because?

M: I’m wearing different hats; so dentist hat, that bank there, those people. Mum, wife, other stuff; house, mortgage; those payments, those schedules.

C: What she said, yeah.

P: Exactly what Michelle said.

I: Because?

P: Two different hats, two different identities; one has really, ironically, nothing to do with the other, so you kind of just keep your financial profile-

M: And I think the way our tax structure is, we can't write off our house mortgage; so I think it's easier from an accounting point of view that things are separate.

I: But in terms of dealing with your bank, if you had someone that-

N: I think subconsciously, we want to have business separate from the personal life. So when you’re going to a different bank, it's you; versus you’re going to that particular bank, it’s already you wearing that hat.

I: Filippo, are you the same?

F: I have personal and business with CIBC, and I have some other bank like (INAUDIBLE 1:33:00) :”Ev”. I think you need things; like for my personal credit card, the National Bank. That card there is so much better than what CIBC has.

I: So CIBC; would you want that, one that one point of contact, or…

F: I’m just saying, I have personal and business with CIBC; but just recently in the national bank, they had a credit card for personal where you pay $150 a year, but they give you a $100 rebate for going to the airport and checking your luggage; and you get $100 rebate for parking at the airport every year, you got a $50 rebate if you book your flight in advance, and you're like 1.75% return for money spent on that credit card. So you’re saying switch just for that (INAUDIBLE 1:34:00) and I get 250/2.50 back in benefit. Plus it’s a high (INAUDIBLE 1:34:10).

I: If CIBC matched those features, you would stay at CIBC.

F: Yeah.

I: But they’ll be unique. [LAUGH]

F: As soon as I saw that credit card, it was the best credit card I'd seen for $150?

M: Where are they advertising? How did you know to go do that?

F: They came to our (INAUDIBLE 1:34:35) courses-

M: Networking.

F: They came because they wanted to sponsor us; they wanted to do business with us. I said no, because A) their branch is too far away and 2) (INAUDIBLE 1:34:50) you don’t need it. So for business, I think I have everything there but to get the credit card, (INAUDIBLE 1:35:03) "that's all you need/so unique".

I: Okay, we're going to whip through these a little bit quicker than we did the other ones. We're going to do it as a team this time; so I'm going to ask you to do that same exercise, the blue/red. The red is the part that is really appealing, the kind of resonating with you, the hot buttons; the blue is the cold, like it's not working for you. I'm going to ask you to work real quick, because we don't have a whole lot of time left.





I: We're going to do a little bit of compare and contrast; let's start with…it seems there’s more red on the third area which, is “Pro to Pro”. So you guys underlined the tough part; the first paragraph, what we call the Insight. What is it about that?

M: I really like that.

I: Tell me why; tell me your experience, Michelle?

M: I just like that statement in general; it's not even related to banking, just in general. Having people that you can defend on; within my practice, it sort of feels like that.

I: That it’s a team sport, that it’s more than just yourself?

M: Absolutely.

I: You guys concur with that as well?

D: Yeah, (INAUDIBLE 1:47:50)make or break.

I: Make or break experience, so that's something. So if we're shouting out the window, if they were shouting this to you, is it something that you would turn around and pay attention to? It's not advertising, but it resonates with you?

C: If you have a team, it’s good.

I: You guys didn't circle that though, right? but you did circle there.

F: That reminded us of the first line over there.

I: Because?

F: I don’t know.

P: I think that first (INAUDIBLE 1:48:20) was worse.

I: Just stay on this one for now, because you guys didn’t do even anything on this at all. Because if nothing's resonating there-

D: It’s okay.

F: I like the bottom part, it’s alright.

I: So you put red in-

F: All of them.

I: Starting from “Each is an expert in their area.” What's that all about? Tell me, why’d you guys underline that?

N: Because we hope the bank will offer us expertise, and not just generalise expertise from the banking point - special investment, expert, (INAUDIBLE 1:49:05) - that what’s we’re coming for.

I: Filippo, your thought on that one too?

F: it’s (INAUDIBLE 1:49:15) “the real… 

I: For your business, why would that be important?

F: (INAUDIBLE 1:49:20)…it’s not that important; I just choose CIBC. It’s kind of like you’re born into (INAUDIBLE 1:49:25) “the group”.

P: I think we were just talking about, what do you want from a bank? You want some level of expertise that you don’t have yourself, and I think we were looking at - again, back to the personalised experience - where there was going to be a team you could identify with.

I: You guys didn’t… You just kind of underlined some words that you didn't like, (INAUDIBLE 1:49:50) “A-Team and Genius Sales and Captain”, just a language that was-

D: The worst.

I: Even though A-Team fits with-

P: No, it was A-Team and the connotation to Mr T.

I: And Captain?

P: That language is sexist.

I: Sexist? Woman can be captains.

P: Generally, they’re not. I’m not even going to go there.

C: I agree; woman can be, but when I think of Captain, I think of a man. It’s a postmodern critique.

I: But you did like this, “The ultimate team to help you.” The idea of a team seems to be working for you; tell me why.

P: In my office, it’s like that; our office is a team, me and my assistant were a team, me and my business partner were…more of a marriage-

I: How is that relating to business banking?

P: It would be nice if they were part of the… They're not part of that. I don't know if they can be a part of that. So something aspirational for you.

I: Chris, the idea of team seems to be working for you too.

C: Yeah; it's just positive, the idea that somehow your own idea of a team could work; they might have the same idea of the team as you do. That would be lovely.

I: So team up with you, be part of your team?

C: Yeah; if they were part of my team, that's just a good analogy. It makes you closer to them.

I: ?

D: The same thing; the network is everything.

I: Let’s do the real-world experience.

P: So that's the team experience.

I: You guys have more reds, so I'll start with you guys over here. The first sentence, “There some lessons that can’t be learnt from books”, you've underlined that one.

M: It's the whole life experience thing. Staying on the positive, then the third paragraph; “Our banking professionals are not just suits; they have life experience running their own business.” That whole paragraph is underlined; why is that? Which one, the blue?

I: No, “Our business banking professionals are not just suits; they all have experience running a real business. They've been there, they've done it and gain experience that counts.”

D: It's nice when you meet someone who works in the same environment; there’s a knowingness or a understanding. I don't believe it-

C: It’s not expected that someone's going to be able to relate to you on those levels.

D: But if I meet someone- let’s say I’m on vacation, someone says “Oh, I'm a physician in general internal medicine in a hospital”, there's a knowing moment.

I: So what about if it's somebody who had worked in administration - say at a hospital or in a clinic - and has the industry experience that way. Does it have to be an internal medicine guy? Where's that range?

D: No, if they say “I’m an administrator at the hospital”; in terms of that knowing moment - if you meet someone who does exactly what you do - there's that instant knowing moment. “I understood what those hard hours are” - so if it's a hospital administrator and I don’t have that knowing moment, I have the (INAUDIBLE 1:53:40).

I: But if somebody understands the industry - not so much your job as an internal medicine, but understands the business of operated…I don’t know your business, so I can't even tell you. You know what I'm talking about?

D: So that would be nice; it wouldn't be the same resonant-

I: But still relevant; so it doesn’t have to be a dentist that went into banking; that's what I'm trying to get at.

M: I guess it depends on how it comes across.

D: There's a fine line.

M: For example, I was researching banking to redo all my financing on the personal side - and you know, they brought in all their five experts, their tax person, their this - but one of the persons they brought in is someone who specialises in dental practices. His expertise and his familiarity to me was wrong; so it wasn't a plus.

C: I wouldn’t find it much more appealing if the spirit of it were, “Somebody who is able to get to know you and understand your needs”, as opposed to “We already can relate to you before you get there.”

I: No, I understand what you’re saying, but this idea is that they’re going to hire people that have industry-specific experience.

M: That's good.

I: I was just trying to get - because you were kind of skeptical, because I think you were saying “Well, what’s some guy in internal medicine going to know with the banking?” - I understand it, but it wouldn't be that type of (INAUDIBLE 1:55:15) “business”

C: With the banking experience -I don't know if it helps - for the real estate side, there was a real estate mortgage broker at the bank whose father was a physician. There was all this knowingness - “Oh, I know exactly” and - it was that knowingness and that familiarity that initially was; but then disintegrated. That’s just an anecdote, it doesn’t…It was that that ruined; his seeming knowingness without actually ruined the relationship.

M: I think the overall essence of that - the idea that people are going to help you with your banking either have other careers, and/or expertise in a various array of environments - and that's going to make them better advisors. That's possible.

I: You believe that?

P: Sure.

D: But the (INAUDIBLE 1:56:20), it's a fine line.

C: Until you start thinking it through.

M: I don't know if that's realistic; I believe that's the essence of that board, and so do I like that? Yes.

I: What about you guys; you gave the first paragraph blue.

P: I’ll probably take ownership for that.

I: Doesn't ring true for you at all?

P: Cheesy.

I: Could it be written in a different way; are there elements of it that-

P: I personally think I don't come to the bank looking for a friend; I have friends. I'm looking for a professional that's going to help me solve problems, and I'd like to be respected as a customer. So to me the Pro to Pro part works way better than the Real World Experience, because to these people's point, you're not going to find somebody. I think it's a false expectation that you're always going to (INAUDIBLE 1:57:15) “feel that”, so why go there? It's a road that's not going to take you in a positive direction. The other one is what a bank, to my mind, should at least be endeavouring and to do, and that's a realistic expectation; as we saw.

I: Which one are you talking about?

P: The second one, the Pro to Pro; that's what we're after; but then when you broke it down, all we want, it's really simple. We just want to tell our story once, right? So that's this whole real-world expertise thing, no. I want to talk to the person who can solve my problem, and I also want to have to tell my story watch.

I: Somebody didn't put this in red; Filippo. Dysfunction in the ranks?

P: No, different perspective.

I: Why did you put this one in red? The third paragraph, the last paragraph; “Each one specialised in a different industry area.”

F: I feel like this is for everybody; farmers, accountants… It could help anybody.

I: I’m going to ask you guys to look at these as well, but I ask you guys to look at what we call the Activations or Reason To Believe; that you say fit this, and something that's appealing to you. It seems like lots of stars; we have eight, eleven stars to Say It Once. What is it about that one?

F: That things get done properly the first time; you're not going back double-checking, is this done, did they transfer the money. It’s done.

N: The level of professionalism should be that high. Tell it once and it’s done, you’re sold. So does that relate to…Does that make Pro to Pro kind of (INAUDIBLE 1:59:10) “live/glib/limp” then?

F: Proffessional, do it once; you tell your story. So that delivers on that. Paula, your thoughts?

P: Yeah, exactly like that.

I: Then you have another one, “Proactive Planning”; Paula, I don’t know if you picked that.

P: We were just talking about somebody who actually gives advice to you, or somebody that actually wants train your business activity. So using the example of too much money in the account; so following, or just…I think it says on the (INAUDIBLE 1:59:40) “supply,  … other suggestions.” So yeah, it’s that level of engagement; without you asking them, they proactively reach out to you. Back to the respectful.

I: So, this one got one star…

F: They help you here right away, then (unclear 2:00:03), you know. So, you’re not going to get… They will help you, but they’ll put you on the side burner. You aren’t coming back, they can forget about you.

I: Seems no heart for our A-Team in the (INAUDIBLE 2:00:15)… personalised growth plan, because… Having a cash management financial expert, a foreign exchange expert, tax expert, that doesn't interest you guys?

M: It does, but not the same as just having to tell your story once. I swear. It fits, absolutely.

I: This seems to be a pain point for you guys.

P: I was thinking like last Friday the dude who I had to explain (INAUDIBLE 2:00:55) and the next dude and whatever. In my opinion I shouldn’t have had to explain a thing, other than to say “It's a lawyer’s trust account”, they go, “Gotcha; don't even try, it wont work.” Whereas, no; and I had to tell my same story at least twice. I’m like, no.

C: They’d never heard of this cashless bank thing?

P: Oh, wait for it, it’s coming to a branch near you. You’re going to love it.

F: You come, there’s nothing. Just machines.

I: So here they’re saying what seems to be touching a raw nerve, and this speaks here really strongly.

P: What I find interesting is – and this is again, back to personal experience – you’ve got the Pro to Pro, and yet we've got branches that are going to have less and less people in them. The question I have is, what's the new interface going to look like? If it's not going to be a teller that's totally fine; you're saying how great your tellers are. I'm happy with a contact person if you can get them. I don't even care if I can get them by email, but from my experience it's a level of expertise, back to “I’ve been there”. Tell me you have a lawyer that's had a trust account, and how do I work in your new system?

I: There wasn’t much heart for Personalised Growth Plan; personalised plan for your business growth needs, no. Let’s move on to these guys. You guys didn't put a lot of stars, but it seems like one that worked best for you was Industry Specialists. Bunch of stars there. Because, Christopher? Do you remember that one?

P: Made sense.

C: Because it related to real world experience. It just connected.

I: Is it an important thing or is it an interesting thing for you as well, as somebody that knows the law category?

C: No, I was just trying to match the (INAUDIBLE 2:02:40) to which ideas which match that.

P: I think it’s important from a tax point of view, how your accounts are set up or done properly. You shouldn’t have to explain that to them.

I: Having industry experts would help you out there. Doug, did you put any stars on that one?

D: I did put two stars there as well; I think because it matched the…

I: Personally, in terms of… Is it interesting to you, does it resonate with you?

D: I’m not registering… I need to relist them again.

I: “(INAUDIBLE 2:03:17) and train people with special professional expertise in legal, medical, accounting, agriculture, real estate, retail. There’s always someone who understands unique challenges in your industry.”

D: Yeah, I do.

I: We did talk about that before with somebody in real estate; somebody was maybe a real estate lawyer, or was a real estate agent or worked for (INAUDIBLE 2:03:46) or something, that knows the industry and they go work for the bank. Is that an interesting thing for you?

D: Yeah, that would be very helpful.

I: The other one is “Business Veterans Only. We only hire business banking advisers that have previous business experience.” This is very similar to that one, the previous one. You were talking about teachers, if you want to share that with the rest of the group. When you guys were together; tell me about that.

P: I was saying there’s a change in how the education system is working; not everyone who goes to teacher’s college is necessarily going to be a good teacher, sometimes having life experience. Same with doctors; same with a lot of professionals now. The police force is like that. They don’t just go straight from high school and go into the police force; they want to get a general degree, they want to get life experience, have another job, have another something and then add something to that business environment.

N: You want to have a holistic approach.

P: Right.

I: In a business banking context, why is that important? What is the benefit to you?

P: Again, I think's just so there's a greater understanding for a larger community.

I: I think somebody - there's a lone star right here: Meet You Anywhere.

C: That’s just flexibility. Once you get all these different people in there with these different backgrounds and everything, it's goes back to the adaptability, of that’s just… Professionals are going to do that kind of thing.

I: So what’s the essence of this idea, and how did it fit?

C: If you can't adapt, you're not a professional to your customer. By definition, if you know that “I’m only going to meet you at 6:30 on Saturday, and that’s it’; that's just not professional.

I: There didn’t seem to be much heart for Smart Banking for Business.

P: There’s enough smart products out there already.

I: Is it just the name, or is it using data?

P: Didn't relate to it at all.

C: What’s it to do with the real world?

I: So it doesn't fit, that's another reason. CIBC Business Academy?

P: No.

D: But that's the opposite - people in school, they don't have real world experience by definition.

P: That was the other one, that was the bottom line. Fresh talent.

I: "Invite speakers of industry"; keep you abreast of stuff in your industry.

P: I don’t need my bank to do that.

I: Is that something that you do with your professional organisations?

P: Yes.

I: Do they talk about financial things as well?

P: Sometimes.

I: I want you to go around and revisit the areas; pick the one that really-

F: Without the modifications?

I: Well, we used modifications on some of them, and these ones are the ones that you picked some things that were really working for you, as well.

F: So we consider the modification.

I: Yeah, consider the modification and pick the one that resonates with you the most. Write it down on your heart the reason why.




I: There seems to be some convergence over there. Who picked that one? Filippo, tell me why the uniqueness, and then we'll go-

F: They try to treat you on an individual basis; you've got individual needs, it’s not cookie cutter. I think I like that one overall.

I: Is that your experience; do you feel that currently at CIBC?

F: I started off when I was a kid; they've always been there for me, I'm kind of born into this. My main banking business; it was always convenient, I know people there, (INAUDIBLE 2:13:30) family members there, their counsellor; I bring my parents there for their stuff.

I: Everybody else picked number 3; Pro to Pro was the name of the area. Michelle, why did you pick that?

M: I think what I said before; my work environment is a team, my home environment is a team. So it just resonates with me, with my life, all of it.

I: And the idea of it being Pro to Pro, is that…

M: Because I'm a professional or an expert in what I do? I don't necessarily like the term Pro to Pro, to be honest. But you know what I mean; having professionals.

M: It was more the team aspect of it than Pro to Pro.

I: Paula?

P: Yeah, same thing; I like the team approach, that what’s we highlighted on ours. I like the accountability, of knowing that there'd be somebody I can tell my story.

I: So that's one of the activation things; this seems to be a kind of a killer app for that area. Nathan, you wrote down?

N: I think that I actually count on expertise of professionals; maybe taxation advice or investment advice.

D: It's kind of not completely consistent, but there's no I in team, so it's really no self-interest; it should be towards a common goal. I think the common goal is really the customer, but the team still resonates. Maybe it's the culture that we've been trained in a sense or work, but there's no I in team. It’s less in the bank’s interest, but camouflages it better to something that is very deeply ingrained in what we do. But I'm not sure it could ever be a team, because the bank is-

P: The bank.

N: The bank is an institution.

I: Chris, you have the last word in terms of the choice; why did you choose that one?

C: Yeah I guess I'm backing off. I like the idea of the team, but really Pro to Pro is what comes down to; that's what I probably need, it's not necessarily what I want. Pro to Pro is getting it done; I don't want someone to tell me what I want to hear I want someone to tell me what I need to hear.

I: That's an interesting way to put it okay. We have maybe 10 minutes left, but I want to do one last thing; and I'm going to go around the room, we're going to give you a couple of minutes to think about it. You saw a lot of stuff; when we first walked in, I talked "What's working for you”; heard a lot of like really negative things, niggles - and that's expected. I don't think you shocked me; I've done enough work in this area to hear those things. I want you to flip that switch right off, just to help me; and this is your opportunity to speak to senior managers at CIBC, because this gets really to the talk, this kind of stuff. They pay a lot of money to do this kind of stuff, so they take this stuff very seriously. So use that right side of your brain, that out-of-the-box kind of thing; what would you tell them - not so that they can make money, but for you - that would be very, very beneficial to you. I don’t want to hear those little things, like “Open one more hour a day” - those are really small things and they can easily do that - it's a little bit more kind of grandiose, out of the park thing that you can tell a senior manager. I’m serious, you have that; this will get back to them.

M: I don't know if it's too nitpicky or not; I don't know how the hierarchy in a bank works in terms of employment, but it seems… like I said, I have good experiences with tellers, but just in terms of higher-level people, having better access to them. And long-term relationships; I don't even have a bank manager, I don't think, or anything like that; so there’s something lacking in upper management.

I: So having a more consistent access to higher-level person in the bank. Paula, any thoughts?

P: I don't understand the rollout out of these money-less branches, because I'm not sure what the goal is for my customers. Honestly, what's their expectation?

I: But what would you like them to do? Not about their expectation, what would you-

P: I don't think it's working, so my question for them would be “What was the point?”; because they're falling short, and as a customer I would like to improve it in sincerity. But that's the point, somebody didn't think that through,

I: What is it that you want them to do?

P: Think through their changes more thoroughly.

I: Okay, that's a change, but is there something bigger that you would like from them?

P: Customer service; people in the branch, you know what they're doing.

I: Filippo?

F: Help me with personal things. Like I said, years ago I didn't have a lot of money when I first started; I was there a long time, I had to get a mortgage. They already called for me, they gave me a great rate; and another dentist I know, later on he wanted to buy a bigger house. He goes to the same bank for the mortgage, and they were nickel and diming on the… He just moved everything out of that bank, he was so upset; “I put so much money through this bank for you - business-wise, a lot of money. I call for my mortgage, and you…”, you know-

I: So for you, connecting the personal and the business is-

F: Yeah.

I: Because some of you other guys wanted to keep that separate.

D: If they're going to get me a deal, that's a completely different issue from the mortgage.

I: This is not about product; something a bit more grandiose.

F: They took care of me, looking for a mortgage; I went to other banks, I had other quotes. The guy that gave me the quote was already better than anybody else, without any negotiating; and one of my other friend says, he gets U.S. money exchanged. He said the people who work at the bank had a better rate than the average Joe, so his bank manger said “I’ll give my rate on the exchange.” So he saved money there; just personal stuff like that.

I: So personal and business is one thing for you.

F: ”Look, I put so much money into that bank; all that business money. I need their help now on my mortgage” - because he wanted to upgrade his house, and they’re nickel and diming him. He was so upset he moved.

I: Nathan?

N: Well we all have business advisors at CIBC, but I’d really like them to not just be a name on the door - “Business Adviser” but somebody who will try to establish a connection. Something workable.

D: (INAUDIBLE 2:21:50) lofty feeling, I would say to not always have the pervasive feeling that the process - the transaction, the product - is always gained to the bank’s advantage. Despite the language, despite the exercise, when the transaction is over, when something unexpected occurs, it always falls to the bank’s advantage.

I: Tell me something a little bit more positive than that; there’s a skepticism there.

D: Some kind of anticipatory work that yields client advantage. I've anticipated something that I'm busy doing what I do - Pro to Pro, Experts, Team, Common Goal - I can anticipate somewhere where I can make this better for you - and you don’t have to go through the (INAUDIBLE 2:22:45), the faulty transaction, and then try and- but I’ve been a customer for…Some kind of anticipation to say “Quality care, if you’re a quality business”; I think if you’re with a child or another business, quality for your child is anticipating “You’re going to be cold outside, you need a hat so you don’t freeze.” Anticipate somewhere; but it's gamed, not to anticipate. They say “Gotcha. Oh yes, we don't advise you when the variable mortgage rate changes; but not only that, we don't advise you until you get to a certain critical level where you know”… And so all the two years of back dating, etcetera.

I: Christopher, you definitely have the last word in everything again.

C: Continuity would be good; I’d love to speak to the business advisor - whoever I'm dealing with at the bank - and say “Yeah, we spoke two years or three years ago.” Because I tell you what, that’s-

I: They keep changing them.

C: So it would be so nice to say “I spoke with you six months ago”; that would be a good start. It'd blow my mind say “We spoke 2 years ago; they don't have to remember, but I can look at the file. That would make a huge difference; just that human thing. Other people get it, but I’d feel loyal.

I: All right, you guys have been great; I know I pushed you, that’s my job. Make sure you see one of the lovely ladies in the front before you leave.